I have an Amtrol Boilermate Classic model WH-7P indirect hot water heater which is only a few years old.
It was working fine until yesterday. I noticed the hot water was not so hot. I reset the switch and the lights on the Smart Controller came on for about 10 seconds and pulsed and shut off. I noticed a buzzing sound before it shut off as well. Now it won’t light up/ turn on? I have no hot water…help…
I think it's either a fuse in the boiler or the Smart Controller is shot. I'm not sure where the fuse would be or what it looks like.
Terry
Originally Posted by Terry1234
I have an Amtrol Boilermate Classic model WH-7P indirect hot water heater which is only a few years old.
It was working fine until yesterday. I noticed the hot water was not so hot. I reset the switch and the lights on the Smart Controller came on for about 10 seconds and pulsed and shut off. I noticed a buzzing sound before it shut off as well. Now it won’t light up/ turn on? I have no hot water…help…
I think it's either a fuse in the boiler or the Smart Controller is shot. I'm not sure where the fuse would be or what it looks like.
Terry
Terry
We have the exact same hot water heater AND the exact same symptoms (smart controller buzzing and turning off). What was the solution to getting yours fixed?
Thanks,
J
Hi,
I have an Amtrol Boilermate that is also only a few years old. It's been making a buzzing sound lately, for no apparent reason. Then, tonight I noticed that the hot water wasn't very hot at all. It said error 2 on the little panel at the bottom. I turned the main switch off and on once and it seemed like it was going to be fine, then the lights on the panel shut off.
Help!
Thanks!
Amtrol does not make the control. We buy it complete which means we would not have spare parts only completed units. Sorry to say you would have to purchase the entire unit.
Regards
Jeff Wellen
-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2008 9:34 AM
To: Info@amtrol.com
Subject: Smart Controller circuit board replacement parts.
Importance: High
My Classic 41 Gal Indirect Water Heater stopped heating water. Upon investigation I found the smart controller was not on, cycled power and it came on briefly made some chattering noise then the display rapidly flickered and it shutdown. I unplugged the temp sensor plug and cycled power and it come on with error 1. Soon as I plugged in the sensor the chattering and flashing occurred and it shutdown again.
I took it apart to the circuit board and power cycled , there are 3 relays within the smart controller, I found one of them to be chattering. If I tap on it with handle of screwdriver controller comes on briefly and heater relay engages then it again shuts down as above.
Is it possible to just get the controller board with the 3 relays and not have to buy an entire control unit?
Sorry to get back to you so late. I was out of the office Friday. I have been thinking about your installation. If you would send me your address I would like to send you a new rev smart control on me.
YES! Beer 4U2
Was amazed got it the next day by Overnight Air UPS!
Perhaps it was how I wrote my last message to him:
One other question I was told there is a Retrofit Kit to convert to a Mechanical Controller, Part # 2704-392
Is there a PDF copy of this kits instructions/installation? Am considering going with it.
For now I have eliminated the Smart Panel and have my heater and boiler maker circulator both running of the heater thermostat ,but
Of course that eliminates any control of the tank temperature.
Maybe the mention of uncotrolled water temperature indicated possible lawsuit for scalding? Not that I intended that but when I mentioned it to someone they said that might have been a concern of Amtrol to take action.
Anyway I am pleased to be a receipient of Amtrols kindness and the new controller seems to have been redesigned compared to my old one....
Before I installed it I took a look inside and took some digital pictures of the componets.
Relays are new brand with higher amperegage rating, transformer is now consderably smaller. Has an option to add a sensor for water leakage from tank, has an alarm built into it, Display now stays on with current set tempature and pushing any arrow shows the internal tank tempature.
My old unit required pressing both arrows at once to see internal tempature and scrolling through menu to see the tempature setting. Had no Alarm built in so those are nice addtions.
Wes,
How can I wire up my system to bypass the control unit? I'm having the same issues described throughout this post and can not get a hold of Amtrol until Mon, nor can I even find anyone around here that sells Amtrol parts. These cold showers in December are getting old fast and any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Oh, my unit is an Amtrol WH7L if that helps.
Nevermind. I figured out an easy bypass method.
My smart controller died. I have a new one ordered but won't be here for several days. How can I bypass the controller so that I have hot water until I get the new controller?
Please help...my wife isn't happy.
I recently had the exact same problem as many have described. It is a 3 year old WH7P Boiler Mate, and the Smart Control was buzzing and shutting down. Although the heater carries a 6 year warranty, the control warrantly is one year. I contacted Amtrol after reading the many posts here, and they sent a new control at no cost to me. It took about 10 minutes to install, and it is now working very well. If you are having a problem, call Amtrol in Rhode Island..they couldn't have been nicer to work with.
We had a new heating system and a 41 Gallon Amtrol Boiler Mate WH7P with Smart Control installed in 2002. 4 zones, one is the Amtrol. We were told it was the best and very efficient. We had no problems until....
2 days ago...My husband burned his hand while shaving!
I can't believe this happened!
I can't help but think it could have been worse, it could have been someone in the shower! What if it was my elderly mother-in-law or a child?
I grabbed my candy thermometer, the temp coming from the faucet reads 166.8 degrees F ! Went to the basement, ER2 code on the Amtrol. It is set at 125 degrees F with a DIF of 10.
Got the booklet, useless...tells us nothing but to contact local service to correct. Also noting the Smart Control is only warranted for 1 year, they don't service them, no parts are available, only a retro kit.
Our Service guy is coming tonight after 6 PM.
Amtrol Tech Support will be closed, phone: (401)535-1216 Mon-Fri 8am-5pm EST
I'm gonna end up paying for a service call and he is not going to be able to confer with Amtrol Tech Support to troubleshoot the ER2 code to correct it as stated in the manual? Very nice. I mean, I am no idiot, but I am not an HVAC tech either, even if I called Amtrol, I don't know enough about this stuff to even think they could help me. I don't want to be baffled by BS and technical questions, or brushed off. But I will call after I post this just for peace of mind.
In the meantime, I have lots of questions...
1. Has the excessively hot water damaged my dishwasher or washing machine?
2. Can excessively hot water damage any of my PVC drains, gaskets, seals, etc?
3. Can the tank crack or damage other components because the water is too hot?
4. Should we shut the Amtrol down? Should we even trust it?
Guess the Service guy will tell me, but as an educated consumer, I gotta say after reading this thread I am very disappointed in Amtrol and considering what legal recourse we may have.
To top it off, I just checked the warranty on the Amtrol page, input my SN and guess what...
No records were found for my Serial Number.
WHAT? So now they are saying I don't even have a warranty on this thing? Funny, the Warranty cards were sent in as soon as the installation was completed. Spent $10,000 for a new heating system and nobody wants to back their warranty!
If someone from Amtrol is following these threads, please help me get some answers and rectify this situation. I am not a satisfied customer and if I am going to depend on your products both now and in the future, they should be safe and my warranty should be in your system! There should also be more details on safety measures for what a consumer should do to protect themselves and their property when your Smart Control gives an E2 code.
UPDATE: Called Amtrol Tech. He advised they are getting alot of calls regarding ER2 Codes. he told me to run the hot water until the temp drops (until the steam stops?) LOL Tech says when the temp drops, the error code will disappear.
I suppose I knew more about this than I thought... here is what is happening. Since this is the beginning of the heating season here in NY, the boiler is providing high heated water to the basboards, there is a possibility that a check valve is stuck, allowing the over heated water to enter the BoilerMate. At least when my Service Guy shows I will have some sort of clue as to what the issue may be.
Now, all I have to get an answer on is what the deal is with my warranty not being in effect. Most disturbing to me.
Had my Boilermate for 4 years and the SmartControl started humming a few weeks ago. Well if you read all the threads they are correct when they say that once the humming starts its just a matter of time before the SmartControl dies. Today was the morning of it's death. The display is completely off now. If I tap the side of the SmartControl the display will sometimes flicker and occasionally the hum will return, but only for a moment, and then the unit dies again.
I contacted Amtrol. I'll let you all know how it goes.
Wish me luck!
-Andy
I had all the same things: It started buzzing. After two months it died. I have studied the two threads here and found little about actually repair the buzz prone Smart Control. I studied mine, figured out what is going on, and effected a beautiful solution to the problem that costs nothing.
The ironic thing is that once the hot water heater unit is installed, the powering of the Smart Control is fixed for all time. It is either 120 Volts AC, or 24 Volts AC. Because of special circuits, the Smart Control will operate on either 120 or 24 Volt power. This accommodation is automatic. The entire problem is caused by the special dual voltage automatic circuits, even though they are not needed once the heater is installed with one voltage or the other.
The sole benefit of the special dual voltage design is for the maker and seller of the hot water heater, not for the end user. Because the heater will operate either way, it is not necessary to stock more types of heaters in the warehouse. Here is how those special circuits work:
The main part of the Smart Control has a power supply designed to operate off of 24 Volts AC. It consists of a full wave bridge rectifier, followed by a 220 uF 50 Volt filter capacitor. The input to this power supply is connected to the swingers of a double pole, double throw relay. The normally closed contacts of this relay are connected to the power input terminals (black and white wires) for the Smart Control main circuit board. Thus, if 24 VAC is fed to the board, it will flow through the normally closed contacts directly to the power supply (the relay is not energized.)
There is a small 120V/24V step-down transformer with the primary winding connected to the power input terminals (black and white wires) and the secondary winding connected to the normally open contacts of the relay. In the case that the board is fed with 120 VAC, this relay operates to switch the power feed to the power supply off of the power input terminals (black and white wires) and on to the 24V secondary winding of the transformer.
The relay coil is fed by the board power input terminals (black and white wires) via a rectifier diode and a small 4.7 uF filter capacitor. The resulting DC output voltage (across the 4.7 uF capacitor) is not enough to pull in the relay with 24 VAC, but is more then enough to robustly pull in the relay with 120 VAC. When the relay pulls in, the 24 VAC transformer secondary output takes over the powering of the power supply.
The failure mode is that the 4.7 uF capacitor develops an internal open circuit condition which removes its ability to filter the voltage pulses into a steady DC to operate the relay coil. When this happens, the relay starts buzzing at 60 times per second, back and forth. Eventually, this causes a mechanical failure. The movement of the relay armature back and forth wears out the moving parts. The relay does not burn up.
This silly circuit can be removed. Remember, once the water heater is installed, the operating voltage for the Smart Control is fixed at either 120 VAC or 24 VAC. There will never be any need for this circuit. In my case, the control was powered by 120 VAC.
All that is needed is to remove the relay, and the 4.7 uF capacitor, and then install two jumpers on the relay solder pads.
Removing the relay is very difficult because all of the eight solder connections must be unsoldered at the same time. The right way to do this is with a solder sucker. This is a tool that uses a spring loaded piston to generate a high vacuum that sucks the solder away from the connection, one connection at a time. After each suck, you re-**** the tool and proceed to the next connection. You can purchase a solder sucker at a store that sells electronics tools.
The relay should be removed, because if it has broken parts internally due to long buzzing, it could have a short that could cause problems. The capacitor is not needed and it might also cause a problem.
To locate the relay and capacitor, look over in the corner of the board where the power input terminals (black and white wires) are located. The lone (not the other two that are laid out side by side like the coffins for a man and wife) relay is the one you want to remove, along with the 4.7 uF capacitor which is right next to the relay. It is a little cylinder about 9/16 inch high and 3/16 inch diameter.
Once the relay and capacitor are removed, install two jumpers on the solder pads on the circuit board (where the relay used to be) as follows:
Look at the pad pattern so that the group of six pads is at the top, and the group of two pads are at the bottom. Your viewpoint is from the component side of the board. The new jumpers are inserted from the component side, and soldered on the circuit side of the board. Start at the bottom left pad. This is pad 1. Go up to the next pad (the lowest in the group of three. This is pad 2. Go up to the next pad (center of the group of three. This is pad 3. Go up to the top left pad. This is pad 4. Go across to the top right pad. This is pad 5. Go down to the next pad. this is pad 6. Go down to the next pad. This is pad 7. Now drop to the bottom right pad. This is pad 8.
Pad 1 coil
Pad 2 NC contact set 1
Pad 3 Swinger contact set 1
Pad 4 NO contact set 1
Pad 5 NO contact set 2
Pad 6 Swinger contact set 2
Pad 7 NC contact set set 2
Pad 8 coil
120 VAC jumpers:
Jumper 1 from pad 3 to pad 4
Jumper 2 from pad 5 to pad 6
24 VAC jumpers:
Jumper 1 from pad 2 to pad 3
Jumper 2 from pad 6 to pad 7
When I finished this modification, I reinstalled my Smart Controller and it worked flawlessly! My hot water was back, and I had not spent one cent!
Good luck!
can someone assist me in locating the reset switch on an Amtrol water heater model WH7P? My power went out and when it came back on my water heater was not on and I dont know reset it. I had a plumber look at it and he left without finding the reset button.
Beer 4U2
Mike, You are brillent!!! Thank you.
This is my third time with this issue and Amtrol has been very kind to replace it at no charge but, I have to pay the labor costs which, to date, it would have been cheepers to switch to a different brand.
It took me a little bit to follow your directions but one I sorted it out in my brain, it was really easy, and took me about an hour. Hopefully I never have to do it again, but if I do, it would take about 15-20 min.
Thank you so much for saving me $300-$500, it is much appreacited and three days later, I still have wonderful hot water.
AKSonya, Anchorage, Alaska
Thanks, Little Mikie for this fix. It worked beautifully for me on a Sunday when I couldn't get parts.
Thanks Little Mikie, I only had to replace the 4.7uF capacitor - not an elegant job, but it works fine. I eased the original out with just a soldering-iron (no sucker, no solder-wick) and soldered a replacement onto just the pcb-pads since the holes were still blocked up with solder.
Very nice write-up Little Mickie.
I spoke to Amtrol this morning and explained the symptoms and the suggested work around.
The technician I spoke with told me that they identified the issue and have corrected it in the Version 3 Smart Control unit that started to ship in 2007.
They offered to send me the updated unit no charge.
Nice to hear they are standing behind their product.
It would have been nice for them to be proactive in issuing a recall or a notification to owners, but a few cold showers are good for the soul.
Larry
I want you folks who sent notes of appreciation to know that it was very much appreciated. To think that I was able to offer something that really was helpful, after all of that misery that led up to my solution, warms my heart.
One fellow replaced the 4.7uF capacitor and let it go at that. I don't think that this is a good idea. A better way, if you do not have a solder sucker is to scratch the circuit traces (foil) on the PC board to disconnect the relay (which has not been removed) and then hook up jumpers to achieve the same end result. That relay has the potential to cause problems. Why not go for maximum reliability?
Here is a link to the company that makes the solder sucker that I have been using for 40 years. They have a line drawing of their classic one that I use on the home page. It works very well.
Edsyn - Quality soldering tools, stations, tips, desoldering, smd rework, fume extraction, hand tool solutions and more all made in the USA
Google Edsyn if this link does not come through to the intended post. No problem.
My hot water was out for almost a month. When I finally looked into it, the rest is history. As of today, it is still working flawlessly. I hope that I have it licked.
I got a kick out of the way the automatic filth eliminator inserted **** for the last part of my explanation of prepare the solder sucker for the next removal of solder. I used a word that consisted of re followed by a word that is the same as rooster, or what you would do to prepare a gun for firing.
Nasty stuff, these words. Duck, luck puck, buck, muck, suck, and tuck, are acceptable. But that other letter brings down the moral fury.
I can imagine the bad words that must have been expressed during all of the troubles that were experienced because of that 4.7 uF capacitor.
By the way, I have run into this problem several times in the past with other electronic equipment. The problem is that these young electronic engineers that design this stuff are not experienced with various problems with filter capacitors.
A single diode as a half wave rectifier pushing a small dry electrolytic capacitor, as in this case, is attractive because it is very simple and inexpensive. However, if one is not very careful, the ripple current in the capacitor can become high enough to cause this type of capacitor to fail. Only experience can alert Little Mikie to the problem. The young engineer, starting at a low pay rate, has no hope of catching it.
I still say that this Amtrol design, for the benefit only of the maker, through reduction of inventory, is poorly conceived to begin with, and the design itself was very crude. Look at the misery that was caused.
If Amtrol built their fine tanks like that smart controller was designed, a wall of scalding water would come flooding out to fry the feet of the customer.
Thanks again for your thank you notes,
Little Mikie
I've read this entire thread, and I have the same Amtrol 7L-7P Tank, and fortunately my control unit is working fine, or so I think..
I noticed no hot water yesterday, and could see the unit was powered up, set to 125 degrees, and internal temp at 125. I raised the set point to 140, and the circulator from the boiler kicked on, and heated the water. So mechanically, things seem ok. I checked it this morning, and the set point is still 140, but internal water temp is showing 160. Its not 160 at the faucet. This leads me to believe the temperature sensor is shot.
Any Ideas on how that is done?
On a side note, 4 days prior my Honeywell hydrostat control went bad on my boiler, and was replaced with a Aqustat controler ($570) by my oil company. Could that have something to do with that?
I don't think so, but it's worth a shot..
I have had to replace the controller twice now, and I think it may be failing a 3rd time. Twice in the last two months it has had an ERR message on the display, and I've had to reset the system.
I want to buy a controller ahead of time, because if I have to go through my plumber in an emergency situation, that controller costs a fortune. I know...I've replaced it twice now.
So I am wondering where is the best place to buy a new one. I assume I already have the Version 3 that people are saying have the corrected problems, but I just don't trust it at this point given past issues.
I'm wondering what the ROI on this boiler is given the issues I've had. And no, I haven't had issues with other electronic components, so I don't think it is a power issue coming into the house.
Thanks in advance
David Sachdev
KatonahMedic , your symptoms are pretty much identical to those I recently experienced. I awoke to an exceedingly hot (straight hot @160+F) morning shower. A few hours later the hot water was tepid (appx 100F), but the furnace was not making heat, neither was the H/W circulater running. The actual temp on the control indicated 129F (clearly incorrect), while the target temp was set at 135F. When the target temp was increased to the max (140F) The furnace controls came to life, but then promptly cut out.
I then disconnected the power to the controller and furnace for 5-10 minutes, via the emergency furnace switch, hoping for some sort of reset of the controller. When I reapplied the power, the controller seemed to at least recognize the sensor temp correctly, but when I held the set button to increase the target temp for more than a few seconds, the display would jump to 00 and the furnace would stop. I found that if I only held the set button for a few seconds at a time I could jog up the setting a little at a time. This morning I awoke to normal hot water, set temp @130F and sensor temp @123F.
Now I have no confidence that I have solved the problem in any permanent way and am ever so grateful for Little Mikie's detailed permanent solution which I have printed out and have at the ready for when the controller flakes out again. It seems it's just a matter of when at this point, not if. Hopefully my unit will make it until our weekend guests depart and I can take my time de and re-soldering to bypass the auto voltage circuitry which seems to be at the root of many of the problems we have experienced with the Amtrol controller.
FWIW, my unit was installed in 1998 and has worked without a hitch until now. If Amtrol had offered replacement parts at a more reasonable cost, I probably would have simply plugged in a new control unit and been done with it. However, at US$200, I took a little look around on the intertubes for solutions and was delighted to find this discussion and detailed workaround
Let me just say that Jeff Wellen at Amtrol has been so wonderful and helpful and is shipping me out a controller card as we speak. The problems that I have over the years have left me a bit frustrated, but this is the first time I have actually contacted the company, and they were very quick to respond to my situation.
Kudos to Amtrol, and thank you so much!
My wife and I bought our current residence a few years ago that came with an Amtrol WH-7L. By the way, I found out the only difference between the WH-7L and WH-7P is that one shipped with a circulator pump and one did not. Otherwise they are identical. The other day, she turned on the water for a shower and it did not warm up; the Amtrol smart control displayed only the number 2. I power cycled the boiler/Amtrol/thermostat (shut off power for 15 seconds, turned it back on) and then there was nothing. I verified power 120V AC to the smart control with still nothing. Disconnected smart control and powered with 24v ac, still dead. I contacted a friend who is a plumber, he told me that those smart controls have given him a lot of problems over the years and recommended I install a retro-fit conversion kit that Amtrol sells to a manual control. He was kind enough to let me use his account at a local plumbing supply house to get his discount.
The plumbing supply had both replacement manual control kit and smart control, I asked for the manual kit. I sat in the parking lot and opened the box, there was no paperwork inside, the kit consisted of a plastic replacement panel with a knob on the front and 2 black wires out the back, with a thin copper peto-static tube also out the back (temperature sensor). I sat and wondered how this setup could provide a control signal back to the boiler to fire, so I called Amtrol and talked to tech support. Turns out there are 2 different manual conversion kits; one includes an electrical relay and the other does not; mine did not. The relay is (I think) a double pole, normally open, 120v relay. When the manual thermostat senses a temperature drop in the water, it closes its internal electrical switch (making connection on the 2 black wires) which then sends 120V to close the relay. Since the relay has 2 poles, the first pole is to send power to the circ pump for the water heater, and the second pole is to send a 120v ac control signal back to the boiler to fire.
Since I had no relay in the box, I went back in to the plumbing supply and explained the situation. They did not sell relays or the Amtrol kit that includes a relay, so I returned the one I bought and then purchased a replacement smart control which I installed myself without problems. The smart control DID have paperwork with it.
For anyone reading this who needs more info, the install manual for both the smart control and the manual control can be found HERE
The manual has info about which wire does what, where to connect to your boiler's aquastat for a bunch of different models, install a manual control, and a ton of other pertinent information.
Also, after contemplating the manual control more, I considered the possibility of installing it without a relay; just hook 120v ac to one black wire and then connect the other black wire to both circ pump and boiler control. I don't think this would be a good idea. First, Amtrol specifies using a relay, and they wouldn't do that if there didn't need to be one. Second, the manual thermostat may not be able to handle passing the amps needed to fire a boiler and run a circ pump. I think the thermostat control is only robust enough to pass a 120v signal to close a relay, the relay does the heavy lifting of passing higher amps to boilers and pumps.
Also, I found that there are a bunch of control features that the smart control has that the manual control does not (duh!) that improve efficiency. For example, you can specify how far to let the water temp drop from the setpoint (5 or 10 degrees), and how close the temp should get to the setpoint before the water heater stops firing the boiler and just runs the circ pump. For example, I set my setpoint to 125 deg., and when the water in the tank reaches 121, the boiler shuts down and the circ pump to the water heater continues to run until the water in the water heater reaches 125. This way, the water heater continues to pull heat from the boiler system after it has shut down, which saves me oil.
My thoughts on the smart control reliability issue: I believe these are manufactured in China. Chinese electronics usually are not junk, but China is notorious for not having any quality control. That means that about 15% of anything from China is prone to failure. Its the same in any country; about 15% or so of any electronics coming off the assembly line is failure prone, but most other countries do extensive testing of their products before sending them out, so the number of failure prone units that actually reach retail shelves is much lower. But with Chinese stuff, you are kind of spinning the roulette wheel. Will you be one of the 85% who have no problems? My last smart control lasted about 11 years, I guess thats not too bad. I took a chance on another smart control, I believe the $29 dollar difference between the smart control and manual control can be made up in the amount of oil I save by using the smart control. We shall see though...
Smart control part #2704-A233 cost me $164.05 (after tax) at the plumbing supply using my friends account
Manual control WITHOUT relay part #2704-392 cost me $135.36 (after tax) with my friends account
The manual control WITH relay part #2704-487
Also, I called another local plumbing supply who carried the smart control. As a cash customer with no account there, they wanted to charge me $217 + tax for the smart control.
I googled the smart control part number and found a place online who sells it for $174 + shipping
I hope all my rambling helps someone else out!!
I have an Amtrol 41 unit that works fine with commercial power but will not fire my oil burner using my generator (4400watts). If I turn off the Amtrol unit then turn up one of my zones for heat and then turn on the amtrol it will start circulating the water. Any ideas? I gave this problem to Amtrol two days ago but haven't heard from them yet
.
Thanks
I had to call back and ask for Jeff Wellen, we spoke , great guy, I am on my way to pick up a smart control from the Co. I have to say Jaeff is probably one of the best persons that i have talked to in a long time that knows when to take care of a customer and how. Thanks Jeff.
Luis
I have a Amtrol WH7P 41 gallon water heater I think its about 6 years old not to sure. There is water coming from the bottom and onto the floor. We looked and there is water actually leaking right through the bottom bolts from the underside. There is hot water and the heat works fine. It is not making any noises or sounds and there is no error messages it just says on. What should we do ??
Tags: amtrol, boilermate, problem, water heater, have been, manual control, that have, black white, black white wires, circ pump, have Amtrol, input terminals, input terminals black, input terminals black white
